What Germany and Japan both had was not only highly functional civil societies but a conception, however imperfect, of a polis. These provided a firm foundation upon which to build political institutions that would be accepted as binding by the populace
Contrast that with the three neocon cases of the early 21st Century- Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. None of the three could be considered a functioning polis - all were basically grab bags of various tribes, religions, ethnicities defined by colonial borders largely kept together by strongmen and rule of arms
Compare and contrast (again) the neocon three with the post-Cold War Eastern (Central) Europe which saw the rapid rise of functioning democratic societies.... but only in certain parts. Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia yes - other parts not so much. What's the dividing line? Roughly the furthest advance of the Ottoman Empire.
Of course the neocon conceit about the universal appeal of liberal democracy collapses before it leaves American shores as evidenced by the rise of totalitarian/postmodern Left in America over the past 50 years and our near escape (for now) in 2024.
If you cannot get these things anymore in Canada or California, why do you think you can get them in Kabul? Isn't Kristol an empiricist by training? What say he? What he hasn't said anything?
I wonder if neoconservatism isn't simply a racket in order for some to be to afford pricey real estate in certain northern Virginia suburbs.
Everyone knows that conservative women are "hot", but @lucretia357 is also stylish and classy. In every photo or live podcast one can see the care & sense of pride she takes in herself, a complete contrast to progressive women (although curiously *elite* progressive ladies in politics & media are usually noticeably well presented - it's as if they don't practice what they preach to the plebs; you can add marriage to the list of hypocrisies as well).
I know it's fashionable to trash Francis Fukuyama, but I think the neoCon/nation building discussion is easier to sort out using his Trust/Civic Society framework that he presented in Trust.
If you evaluate the success of American global involvement through this lens, its no surprise that it succeeded in the two societies we have conquered that most resemble America on the societal trust scale and has failed miserably in most other countries.
If the 3WHH gang is familiar with this, please weigh in. In particular Fukuyama contrasts Korean and Chinese family-oriented culture to the civic society cultures of America, Germany and Japan. I'm curious if Professor Yoo supports or refutes Prof. Fukuyama's analysis of these countries.
What's happening in S. Korea could also make for an interesting topic. Per capita GDP has surpassed Japan. Meanwhile birth rates have collapsed, setting up a demographic implosion. And all of this has played out in the Asian country most successfully converted by Christian missionaries during the 20th century. (Excluding the Spanish colony of The Philippines.)
Steve is right about the "neocon" desire to build democracies. Europe (and even Japan) had a Western view toward property rights and the rights of the "people" so after WWII it was just a question, not of rebuilding their society into something different, but really just rebuilding their economies for the most part. The Japanese have always been adept at adopting new ways if they seem to have advantages which is why they were so prepared for WWII. But the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa have no such traditions. They were and still mostly are feudal, so trying to convert them into a Western democracy takes a long, long time. India succeeded only because the British were there for 250 years. The British did not succeed in Africa because their tenure was shorter and the tribalism significantly worse.
What Germany and Japan both had was not only highly functional civil societies but a conception, however imperfect, of a polis. These provided a firm foundation upon which to build political institutions that would be accepted as binding by the populace
Contrast that with the three neocon cases of the early 21st Century- Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. None of the three could be considered a functioning polis - all were basically grab bags of various tribes, religions, ethnicities defined by colonial borders largely kept together by strongmen and rule of arms
Compare and contrast (again) the neocon three with the post-Cold War Eastern (Central) Europe which saw the rapid rise of functioning democratic societies.... but only in certain parts. Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia yes - other parts not so much. What's the dividing line? Roughly the furthest advance of the Ottoman Empire.
Of course the neocon conceit about the universal appeal of liberal democracy collapses before it leaves American shores as evidenced by the rise of totalitarian/postmodern Left in America over the past 50 years and our near escape (for now) in 2024.
If you cannot get these things anymore in Canada or California, why do you think you can get them in Kabul? Isn't Kristol an empiricist by training? What say he? What he hasn't said anything?
I wonder if neoconservatism isn't simply a racket in order for some to be to afford pricey real estate in certain northern Virginia suburbs.
Everyone knows that conservative women are "hot", but @lucretia357 is also stylish and classy. In every photo or live podcast one can see the care & sense of pride she takes in herself, a complete contrast to progressive women (although curiously *elite* progressive ladies in politics & media are usually noticeably well presented - it's as if they don't practice what they preach to the plebs; you can add marriage to the list of hypocrisies as well).
I know it's fashionable to trash Francis Fukuyama, but I think the neoCon/nation building discussion is easier to sort out using his Trust/Civic Society framework that he presented in Trust.
If you evaluate the success of American global involvement through this lens, its no surprise that it succeeded in the two societies we have conquered that most resemble America on the societal trust scale and has failed miserably in most other countries.
If the 3WHH gang is familiar with this, please weigh in. In particular Fukuyama contrasts Korean and Chinese family-oriented culture to the civic society cultures of America, Germany and Japan. I'm curious if Professor Yoo supports or refutes Prof. Fukuyama's analysis of these countries.
What's happening in S. Korea could also make for an interesting topic. Per capita GDP has surpassed Japan. Meanwhile birth rates have collapsed, setting up a demographic implosion. And all of this has played out in the Asian country most successfully converted by Christian missionaries during the 20th century. (Excluding the Spanish colony of The Philippines.)
Scariest article ive read all week: https://scitechdaily.com/princeton-engineers-develop-metabot-that-is-both-a-material-and-a-robot/
Mysteriously changes shape? Just like Prof Yoo's neocon philosophy? (or theory?)
Steve is right about the "neocon" desire to build democracies. Europe (and even Japan) had a Western view toward property rights and the rights of the "people" so after WWII it was just a question, not of rebuilding their society into something different, but really just rebuilding their economies for the most part. The Japanese have always been adept at adopting new ways if they seem to have advantages which is why they were so prepared for WWII. But the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa have no such traditions. They were and still mostly are feudal, so trying to convert them into a Western democracy takes a long, long time. India succeeded only because the British were there for 250 years. The British did not succeed in Africa because their tenure was shorter and the tribalism significantly worse.